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The Rational Walk's avatar

It’s important, but uncommon, for people to recognize that many things we want in life cannot be purchased at any price. Too often, the “magic number” is idealized as a nirvana where all problems will vanish. That’s the idolatry of money, and I know it well. It took a long time after I hit my “number” before I realized the obvious limits of what money can buy. I’m far from the private jet crowd, but even if I suddenly catapulted to their level, most of my current problems would remain unsolved because money cannot be used to remedy those problems. I would just have a private jet or netjets share with the same problems I have today, and that has no appeal since I have few material needs and actually prefer simplicity and modesty to ostentatious living.

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Yep. Money solves money problems, the others remain. Some new ones appear.

I love how Succession tackles this: you get the jet, the luxury, the exotic locations, and none of it matters compared to how and with who you spend your time.

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T LI's avatar

on how much is enough and vivid void's quote, Bill Gates put it in a diff but similar way:

The perfect amount to leave to your kids, ″enough money so that they would feel they could do anything, but not so much that they could do nothing.″⁣

on the "psychology of money" spending and saving, Morgan Housel is indeed the expert:

"Happiness is result minus expectation; wealth is what you have minus what you want"

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Morgan is the GOAT in this area. What a quote!

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Matt Joass's avatar

"The tyrant believes that the more control he has, the more freedom he will enjoy. But the freedom that belongs to the tyrant is the freedom to be shielded behind ramparts, to insist on flattery from those he encounters and to devise ways of exerting his will on the world around him.

What we can easily fail to realize is how deeply we are guided through our lives by that same belief. With enough status, with enough power, with enough money, we could finally be free. The ads for lotteries promising instant millions eloquently sum up what we have so deeply in common with the tyrant’s agenda: to have enough money to be able to detach altogether from what the world might be asking of us and devote ourselves to a distracted indulgence of what we want from the world.

The tyrant’s dream of freedom is compelling: achieve independence, and you will be liberated from any possibility that the world might change you. The truth is that all the wealth in the world—all the gated compounds, handlers, security guards, offshore assets and vacation properties you could assemble—will still fail to hold life at bay or keep the world from changing you. The world’s job is to knead you like dough, that you might eventually rise into your fullest possible embodiment of compassion, clarity and engagement—and however you might attempt to thwart its work, the work goes on. The choice to refuse to rise, of course, is ultimately yours to make.

Our ideas of freedom through disconnection are tethered as though by an umbilical cord to the belief that the more you can limit your engagement with the world—the more you can determine and control your relationships with it—the better off your life will be. The image of the tyrant in his dark, fortified castle is different in degree, not in kind, from the houses in my mother’s neighborhood."

-- Philip Shepherd, Radical Wholeness

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Wow, great riff and powerful reflection. A post in it's own right. What does it really mean to be in the 'fortress of solitude'.

Yes, we find ourselves in that tension: what we deeply seek is love and connection.

But also . . . we seek stability, safety, a break from the constant threshing and change. "With enough status, with enough power, with enough money, we could finally be free."

A thought I had many times.

What a great way to frame the journey through life. Truly, I love this image: "The world’s job is to knead you like dough, that you might eventually rise into your fullest possible embodiment of compassion, clarity and engagement—and however you might attempt to thwart its work, the work goes on. The choice to refuse to rise, of course, is ultimately yours to make."

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Matt Joass's avatar

It really struck me and flipped a lot of what I used to think of as the noble side of money on its head.

In simple terms I now think of f.u. money and "financial freedom" as its own trap. It's the ultimate goal of left hemisphere mode of separation, a kind of disconnection/independence from everything and everyone.

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Interesting. I can see that it *can* be a trap if it leads to an obsession with independence. But *also* it opens up a world of possibility to connect and to channel the energy of that money to highest and best use.

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Cobin Soelberg's avatar

I know that highway drifter. He's been living out in Eastern Oregon for many years now. I'm amazed he is still going.

We are in Bend. Right on your path. I hope you've been enjoying the PNW.

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

No way!!

He was talking about going to New Mexico but seemed he lived close to a hot spring somewhere in OR/ID.

PNW is lovely (near Mount Shasta right now).

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HAI's avatar

Some people collect shoes, stamps, toys, jewelry. And that's fine. Just be conscious you wish to collect money. Like Buffett makes that clear since a young age, though veiled in reputation and friendship.

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

All comes back to consciousness.

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Andrew Bogle's avatar

One of the best pieces written about the psychology of money; thank YOU!!!

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!

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Joaquin Nicolau's avatar

Wow. So well written. Probably one of the best reads of the year for me. Thank you"

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Thank you!

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SamBuel's avatar

thought provoking, thank you!

I am not sure what happens after one gets the fortress. A worry is that I will have time I won´t know how to fill.

How do you go trhough the dark night? Isn´t there a need for an external struggle, an external enemy? ( I get the intuition that´s what some people search for in hiking mountains/ extreme sports -> an external struggle to "fight").

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

I didn't explore the image of the fortress but as Matt pointed out wisely, the end goal is not isolation but connection -- a life filled with love, curiosity, growth, healing, wonder, adventure etc.

The dark night is an inner process of death/rebirth.

Extreme sports I see as a combination of masculine urge to be challenged (world without struggle feels meaningless) and intrinsic pleasure of flow state.

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Bob Gilbreath's avatar

Nice touch with the ending photo.

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

leads down a whole other rabbit hole on the relationship of money and power

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Ljubomir Josifovski's avatar

Thanks for writing this. That VividVoid criterion ("enough money that you meet your needs for security, but not so much you use it to meet your needs for love, belonging and status") is a keeper. You insight "The greater your future earning potential, the higher the price of your freedom" rings totally true too.

Few times when I've listened to few Tech Moguls interviews, regarding the woke-mania that swept the US in the past decade. Heard complaints one could not say this or that. I thought: of corse you could say whatever you thought. You would just suffer social consequences. You'd risk being ostracised. For this was not a "Stalin terror" for you to fear a bullet in your head. However, the purpose of 'fuck you money' is to be able to say 'fuck you', and to also do say 'fuck you!' ("I will not do what you want me to do") at some point! If you feel the circumstances are justified. So yeah - you will take a personal hit, in $$$ terms and/or in relationships, yeah some people dear to you will disinvite you from their dinner parties. But - speaking truth (to power?) is worth something, is not nothing? That's the idea.

Someone told me I've reach the ripe age of "no fucks given". Now I'm thinking - "fuck you money" is the base, and then "no fucks given" is the next floor! One floor up on the top of the ground floor - better views, also some air circulation too. :-)

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Yes, it's been eye-opening to see the financial elite react to different political realities. I like the idea of the levels. Build your base to reach higher. Follow the truth of the heart to the top floor.

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Paul Davies's avatar

Along very similar lines, you may find something of interest in this: https://moneyblind.substack.com/p/6242001_idiot-money-59 probably (hopefully?) mostly the idea that the Iris Murdoch quote is pointing towards :)

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Rachel O'Brien's avatar

Those last three paragraphs hit me. Such a good framing on how to look at money for real (inner) wealth and freedom. It's true, there isn't enough dialogue on the way we feel and think about money. It's so often tied to the numbers alone (which is also important, just not the full story).

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Numbers/intellectual understanding are important. Without it, people get taken for a ride. But based on my own experience, it's not enough. When it comes to money, I really just got into my own way over and over again in surprising ways :)

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Carvel's avatar

Reminds me of a carreer advisor explaining golden handcuffs to me in my mid-twenties. I subsequently chatted with some partners and heard the stories. Seems easier to see with religious/spiritual grounding, reading of classic literature, or greater maturity. Great post. Thanks.

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Frederik Gieschen's avatar

Thanks! Yeah, I think it's one of those things you have to see up close to get it.

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